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Sunday, December 02, 2007
Wise Children article question
The question is...
Why does Jane Ogborn believe that Wise Children is a "typically 'postmodern' novel" and what evidence can you gather from the article to support this point of view?
Please post a short response by Friday 7th December.
17 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I tihnk that Jane Ogborn calls Wise Children a "typical 'postmodern' novel" as it rejects the idea that novels must go in chronological order and a closed ending, and instead opts for a fragmented and somtimes hazy plot/charcters.
I think Jane Ogborn sees Wise Children typical to a Post-mordern novel, due to its lack of chronilogical structure and narrative, and use of complicated literary techniques. In the article this is referred to as representing the narrator's 'unreliability of memory' due to her age, the confusing and unstructred account of her memouirs, through the use of the amount intertextual references and packed information on her family background, show business, and cultral life expiriences.
You are right: the lack of a linear, conventional chronological narrative is often characterized as 'postmodern'. In 'Wise Children' this is reflected in the way Dora makes connections between the past, present and future.
I think that Ogborn views Wise Children as a "typical postmodern novel" because of the conventional elements Carter uses, such as the non-chronological order and the closed ending. The fact that she mentions "twentieth century novelists" demonstrate that times have changed since Shakesperian times. Novelists have modernised and are finding new ways to make their novels unique and appealing to the reader. As well as novelists, who have developed over time, the reader has too. Due to changes in social class and dermographics there is a wider range of readers,now, for novelists to target. It could be argued that Ogborn puts the message across that Wise Children is possibly aimed for the more interlectual reader, which is why Carter can achieve "the effects of a literary collage." Overall Jane emphasises the way Carter constructed her novel, suggesting that Carter's cleverly, playful constuction techniques is what makes this a "post-modern novel".
Halimo Geesey I think Jane Ogborn believes Wise children to be a 'typically postmodren' novel due to the lack of a real chronological order.
We as the readers are taken along through the ever existing Hazard family history,with various accounts from the past, by Dora. However the interuptions from the present day, such as the knock on the door and Tiffany's disappearence remind the audience (just as they are about to get into a particular past event) that it is in actual fact the past. The person who we are recieving these accounts from (Dora) is seventy- five and she has witnissed the twentieth century unfold, so just as she retells her family memories she will in turn retell, or use anologies of the era. The era of the novel, is further reiterated through Carter's use of intertextuality, from such entertainment mediums, which were clearly not around before the twentieth century e.g. T.V. game shows and the pantomime. This type of novel (postmodern) is typical of today, because as Anatascia was saying, as the years have gone on the readers have become not only literate but media literate, so novelists can include such intertexuality, especially if they want to appeal to a certain demographic.
Jane Ogborn states that ‘Wise Children’ is a “typically ‘post-modern’ novel” because Carter and other late twentieth century novelists “reject chronological narrative and a closed ending”. This is shown through Dora jumping from the present to the past whilst narrating her memoirs. Moreover, Ogborn believes that 'Wise Children' is a post-modern novel, as pre-twentieth century novelists followed a strict structure, making sure that their work was chronological and presented a logical story.
Jane Ogborn calls Wise Children a "typically 'postmodern' novel" because it rejects the traditional chronological narratives and closed endings.
What Jane means by this is that Wise Children does not conform to the conventions of traditional novels with the beginning, middle and end structure, Ogborn choose to concentrate more on building characters and setting scenes rather than building a steady narrative. This acheives the 'literary collage' affect Jane mentions
I think Jane Ogborn believes that Wise Children is a typically 'postmodern' novel as it rejects chronological narratives. This is why Dora constantly changes her story from the past to the present and vice versa. Paragraph number 2 in the article explains the order of the text in detail. In addition, she says that the text has a closed ending making the reader realise that Melchoir finally accepts the twins, as stated in the article.
I think Jane Ogborn views Wise Children as a 'typically postmodern novel' because Carter emphasises the fact that, from the point of view of Dora, it is not written in chronological order, with a closed ending. she has rejected this structure and instead has included 'how many cultural and intertextual cross references she can cram in'. Ogborn sees it as a 'literary collage' because of this, and also due to the many characters, complicated family treee, cross refernces, themes and a 'fragmentation of the plot'.
Jane Ogborn describes Wise Children as a “typical ‘post-modern’ novel” as Carter chooses to ignore expected novel conventions by rejecting a chronological structure; Ogborn refers to it as a “literacy collage”. This term also links to the fun Carter has by playing with as many intertextual cross-references as she can. I think that Carter chooses to reject typical conventions in order to empathise that in life things aren’t what people expect and people do break away from conventions.
I think that Jane Ogborn identifies that Wise Children is a 'typically 'postmodern' novel' due to its avoidance of a simple chronological narrative as well as a closed ending. it can be seen that wise children has many facets to any scheme and to any character as Dora herself as a narrator has two faces, which reflects the way Carter is emphasising that life is in fact complicated; Dora is sometimes a lively , comic chorus girl and sometimes realist , who lives with Grandma Chance's mantra, Dora also confuses the reader by positioning them at the past, present and future. Therefore the mixtures of views and feelings in wise children is recognized as a postmodern novel.
I think that Jane Ogborn identifies that Wise Children is a 'typically 'postmodern' novel' due to its avoidance of a simple chronological narrative as well as a closed ending. it can be seen that wise children has many facets to any scheme and to any character as Dora herself as a narrator has two faces, which reflects the way Carter is emphasising that life is in fact complicated; Dora is sometimes a lively , comic chorus girl and sometimes realist , who lives with Grandma Chance's mantra, Dora also confuses the reader by positioning them at the past, present and future. Therefore the mixtures of views and feelings in wise children is recognized as a postmodern novel.
Sorry for the late response. The ol' tinternet was playing up, and I’ve been ill so couldn’t get to alternative internet...
I agree with Eve, Halimo and Anastasia, in that Ogborn refers to "Wise Children" as a postmodern novel due to its lack of chronological order. Dora’s recollection of the past, and even the present are hazy and incoherent to say the least. Also, the references to Shakespeare’s plays, reiterates that perhaps Dora is still living in the past, hence her lack of consistency when telling stories of the past and present. Carter uses different types of theatre such as Cabaret shows, and then contrasts them with entertainment mediums used today such as game shows, this conveys a different type of structure of a typical novel, thus making it a “postmodern novel”.
As Wise Children was written in 1991, it is very much a postmodern novel due to its use of intertexuality. To support Jane Ognorn's statement of the novel being "typically postmodern", I believe it is very much because of it's lack in chronological memories. Postmodern pieces will often draw attention to themselves as artifacts, just as Wise Children, in this way among others draws attention to itself as fiction by reflecting that fictitiousness within the fiction of itself.
17 comments:
I tihnk that Jane Ogborn calls Wise Children a "typical 'postmodern' novel" as it rejects the idea that novels must go in chronological order and a closed ending, and instead opts for a fragmented and somtimes hazy plot/charcters.
I think Jane Ogborn sees Wise Children typical to a Post-mordern novel, due to its lack of chronilogical structure and narrative, and use of complicated literary techniques. In the article this is referred to as representing the narrator's 'unreliability of memory' due to her age, the confusing and unstructred account of her memouirs, through the use of the amount intertextual references and packed information on her family background, show business, and cultral life expiriences.
You are right: the lack of a linear, conventional chronological narrative is often characterized as 'postmodern'. In 'Wise Children' this is reflected in the way Dora makes connections between the past, present and future.
OMG!!
i just deleted my comment by accident that is soooo annoying!!!
I think that Ogborn views Wise Children as a "typical postmodern novel" because of the conventional elements Carter uses, such as the non-chronological order and the closed ending. The fact that she mentions "twentieth century novelists" demonstrate that times have changed since Shakesperian times. Novelists have modernised and are finding new ways to make their novels unique and appealing to the reader. As well as novelists, who have developed over time, the reader has too. Due to changes in social class and dermographics there is a wider range of readers,now, for novelists to target. It could be argued that Ogborn puts the message across that Wise Children is possibly aimed for the more interlectual reader, which is why Carter can achieve "the effects of a literary collage."
Overall Jane emphasises the way Carter constructed her novel, suggesting that Carter's cleverly, playful constuction techniques is what makes this a "post-modern novel".
Halimo Geesey
I think Jane Ogborn believes Wise children to be a 'typically postmodren' novel due to the lack of a real chronological order.
We as the readers are taken along through the ever existing Hazard family history,with various accounts from the past, by Dora. However the interuptions from the present day, such as the knock on the door and Tiffany's disappearence remind the audience (just as they are about to get into a particular past event) that it is in actual fact the past. The person who we are recieving these accounts from (Dora) is seventy- five and she has witnissed the twentieth century unfold, so just as she retells her family memories she will in turn retell, or use anologies of the era. The era of the novel, is further reiterated through Carter's use of intertextuality, from such entertainment mediums, which were clearly not around before the twentieth century e.g. T.V. game shows and the pantomime. This type of novel (postmodern) is typical of today, because as Anatascia was saying, as the years have gone on the readers have become not only literate but media literate, so novelists can include such intertexuality, especially if they want to appeal to a certain demographic.
Jane Ogborn states that ‘Wise Children’ is a “typically ‘post-modern’ novel” because Carter and other late twentieth century novelists “reject chronological narrative and a closed ending”. This is shown through Dora jumping from the present to the past whilst narrating her memoirs. Moreover, Ogborn believes that 'Wise Children' is a post-modern novel, as pre-twentieth century novelists followed a strict structure, making sure that their work was chronological and presented a logical story.
Jane Ogborn calls Wise Children a "typically 'postmodern' novel" because it rejects the traditional chronological narratives and closed endings.
What Jane means by this is that Wise Children does not conform to the conventions of traditional novels with the beginning, middle and end structure, Ogborn choose to concentrate more on building characters and setting scenes rather than building a steady narrative. This acheives the 'literary collage' affect Jane mentions
I think Jane Ogborn believes that Wise Children is a typically 'postmodern' novel as it rejects chronological narratives. This is why Dora constantly changes her story from the past to the present and vice versa. Paragraph number 2 in the article explains the order of the text in detail. In addition, she says that the text has a closed ending making the reader realise that Melchoir finally accepts the twins, as stated in the article.
I think Jane Ogborn views Wise Children as a 'typically postmodern novel' because Carter emphasises the fact that, from the point of view of Dora, it is not written in chronological order, with a closed ending. she has rejected this structure and instead has included 'how many cultural and intertextual cross references she can cram in'. Ogborn sees it as a 'literary collage' because of this, and also due to the many characters, complicated family treee, cross refernces, themes and a 'fragmentation of the plot'.
Jane Ogborn describes Wise Children as a “typical ‘post-modern’ novel” as Carter chooses to ignore expected novel conventions by rejecting a chronological structure; Ogborn refers to it as a “literacy collage”. This term also links to the fun Carter has by playing with as many intertextual cross-references as she can. I think that Carter chooses to reject typical conventions in order to empathise that in life things aren’t what people expect and people do break away from conventions.
Fiona
I think that Jane Ogborn identifies that Wise Children is a 'typically 'postmodern' novel' due to its avoidance of a simple chronological narrative as well as a closed ending. it can be seen that wise children has many facets to any scheme and to any character as Dora herself as a narrator has two faces, which reflects the way Carter is emphasising that life is in fact complicated; Dora is sometimes a lively , comic chorus girl and sometimes realist , who lives with Grandma Chance's mantra, Dora also confuses the reader by positioning them at the past, present and future. Therefore the mixtures of views and feelings in wise children is recognized as a postmodern novel.
I think that Jane Ogborn identifies that Wise Children is a 'typically 'postmodern' novel' due to its avoidance of a simple chronological narrative as well as a closed ending. it can be seen that wise children has many facets to any scheme and to any character as Dora herself as a narrator has two faces, which reflects the way Carter is emphasising that life is in fact complicated; Dora is sometimes a lively , comic chorus girl and sometimes realist , who lives with Grandma Chance's mantra, Dora also confuses the reader by positioning them at the past, present and future. Therefore the mixtures of views and feelings in wise children is recognized as a postmodern novel.
Ilham
Sorry for the late response. The ol' tinternet was playing up, and I’ve been ill so couldn’t get to alternative internet...
I agree with Eve, Halimo and Anastasia, in that Ogborn refers to "Wise Children" as a postmodern novel due to its lack of chronological order.
Dora’s recollection of the past, and even the present are hazy and incoherent to say the least. Also, the references to Shakespeare’s plays, reiterates that perhaps Dora is still living in the past, hence her lack of consistency when telling stories of the past and present. Carter uses different types of theatre such as Cabaret shows, and then contrasts them with entertainment mediums used today such as game shows, this conveys a different type of structure of a typical novel, thus making it a “postmodern novel”.
As Wise Children was written in 1991, it is very much a postmodern novel due to its use of intertexuality. To support Jane Ognorn's statement of the novel being "typically postmodern", I believe it is very much because of it's lack in chronological memories.
Postmodern pieces will often draw attention to themselves as artifacts, just as Wise Children, in this way among others draws attention to itself as fiction by reflecting that fictitiousness within the fiction of itself.
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